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 Obama's Health Care Plan for the US, Explained and Discussion
Proposed Health Care Plan
Do you support this?
Yes. [ 3 ] ** [27.27%]
No. [ 6 ] ** [54.55%]
Neutral. [ 1 ] ** [9.09%]
No interest. [ 1 ] ** [9.09%]
Total Votes: 11
Guests cannot vote 
 XGhozt
post Sep 9 2009, 07:44 PM
Post #1


Group:  Root Admin
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I'm going to show you both sides of the story, please read before you vote. I know it's a lot, so read or scan it to get an idea of both sides.

The Myths, and what universal health care will do.
QUOTE
"I suffer no illusions that this will be an easy process. It will be hard. But I also know that nearly a century after Teddy Roosevelt first called for reform, the cost of our health care has weighed down our economy and the conscience of our nation long enough. So let there be no doubt: health care reform cannot wait, it must not wait, and it will not wait another year."

– President Barack Obama, February 24, 2009


QUOTE
Comprehensive health care reform can no longer wait. Rapidly escalating health care costs are crushing family, business, and government budgets. Employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have doubled in the last 9 years, a rate 3 times faster than cumulative wage increases. This forces families to sit around the kitchen table to make impossible choices between paying rent or paying health premiums. Given all that we spend on health care, American families should not be presented with that choice. The United States spent approximately $2.2 trillion on health care in 2007, or $7,421 per person – nearly twice the average of other developed nations. Americans spend more on health care than on housing or food. If rapid health cost growth persists, the Congressional Budget Office estimates that by 2025, one out of every four dollars in our national economy will be tied up in the health system. This growing burden will limit other investments and priorities that are needed to grow our economy. Rising health care costs also affect our economic competitiveness in the global economy, as American companies compete against companies in other countries that have dramatically lower health care costs.

The President has vowed that the health reform process will be different in his Administration – an open, inclusive, and transparent process where all ideas are encouraged and all parties work together to find a solution to the health care crisis. Working together with members of Congress, doctors and hospitals, businesses and unions, and other key health care stakeholders, the President is committed to making sure we finally enact comprehensive health care reform.

The Administration believes that comprehensive health reform should:

* Reduce long-term growth of health care costs for businesses and government
* Protect families from bankruptcy or debt because of health care costs
* Guarantee choice of doctors and health plans
* Invest in prevention and wellness
* Improve patient safety and quality of care
* Assure affordable, quality health coverage for all Americans
* Maintain coverage when you change or lose your job
* End barriers to coverage for people with pre-existing medical conditions

Please visit www.HealthReform.gov to learn more about the President’s commitment to enacting comprehensive health reform this year.
QUOTE
More than 50 percent of Americans believe a public insurance option will increase health care costs, according to a new survey on assertions the White House has called myths.

The national survey, conducted from Aug. 14 – 18, involved a random sample of 600 Americans aged 18 and older living in the 48 contiguous states and Washington, D.C. Respondents indicated whether or not they believed 19 claims about health care reform, each of which is considered a myth by the White House.

The results could speak to the current partisan debate on a proposed health care overhaul. While overall the majority of Americans said they believe many of the assertions, more Republicans and Independents than Democrats stood by the claims.

"It's perhaps not surprising that more Republicans believe these things than Democrats," said study scientist Dr. Aaron Carroll, director of Indiana University's Center for Health Policy and Professionalism Research. "What is surprising is just how many Republicans – and Independents – believe them. If the White House hopes to convince the majority of Americans that they are misinformed about health care reform, there is much work to be done."

Among the results on items the White House considers myths:

* 67 percent of respondents believe that wait times for health care services, such as surgery, will increase (91 percent of Republicans, 37 percent of Democrats, 72 percent of Independents).
* About five out of 10 believe the federal government will become directly involved in making personal health care decisions (80 percent of Republicans, 25 percent of Democrats, 56 percent of Independents).
* Roughly six out of 10 Americans believe taxpayers will be required to pay for abortions (78 percent of Republicans, 30 percent of Democrats, 58 percent of Independents)
* 46 percent believe reforms will result in health care coverage for all illegal immigrants (66 percent of Republicans, 29 percent of Democrats, 43 percent of Independents).
* 54 percent believe the public option will increase premiums for Americans with private health insurance (78 percent of Republicans, 28 percent of Democrats, 58 percent of Independents).
* Five out of 10 think cuts will be made to Medicare in order to cover more Americans (66 percent of Republicans, 37 percent of Democrats, 44 percent of Independents).

There were exceptions.

Fewer participants believe "myths" regarding the impact of proposed changes on current health insurance coverage. For instance, less than 30 percent think private insurance coverage will be eliminated. And just 36 percent think a public insurance option will put private insurance companies out of business.

In addition, only three out of 10 respondents believe the government will require the elderly to make decisions about how and when they will die.


QUOTE
When health care is for profit, it's profit first, people second. Almost 50 million people in the US without health insurance and many more with health insurance go bankrupt just trying to pay for basic health care. You have (apparently) no idea how much the 'for profit' health care companies have bloated the costs.

It is not the government that will screw this up, it's the health insurance and HMO's that will and they'll do it for profit ($12 billion).

-> just_curious: have you suffered a serious illness or health issue? I bet your insurance company will go to any lengths to drop your coverage as soon as you start to cost them money.

Most other first world countries have some form of universal health care, except the USA.

You go ahead and let the health insurance and HMO's corps etc make up your mind for you, I wouldn't say the american people are the most gullible, just controlled by the corporate leeches.
The arguments
QUOTE
Questions for thought:
When you say there are "Almost 50 million people in the US without health insurance.." and
it is claimed that the gov't. plan will not "insure" illegal aliens, then why are the illegal aliens
included when counting the 50 million uninsured?

You say "It is not the government that will screw this up, it's the health insurance and HMO's that will and they'll do it for profit ($12 billion)." I ask, can you name a gov't. run program
that is not screwed up? By screwed up I'll give the definition for the purposes of the question:
A gov't. run program that did/does not cost the taxpayers millions/billions/trillions more than what the gov't. claimed that it would.

Most other first world countries have some form of universal health care, except the USA.
...and the question is "what are Medicare and Medicaid?".

You go ahead and let the health insurance and HMO's corps etc make up your mind for you, I wouldn't say the american people are the most gullible, just controlled by the corporate leeches. ... and I question do you have a job provided by one of those corporate leeches?

I'd rather have the option of the freedom to choose what the corporate leeches have to offer
THAN be forced by the gov't. to take what THEY THINK I should PAY FOR.


QUOTE
Fact: the CBO projected costs at 1.8Trillion dollars. The curve does not bend down, but goes up.
Fact: illegal immigrants will not be denied coverage under the public option. There is no requirement anywhere in HR3200 for administrators to check for id or to follow-up on who's registering.
Fact: studies show that increased access to healthful foods, early interventions, etc, increase health outcomes in society. We can improve existing programs to meet these basic healthful requirements without introducing a public option
Fact: Obama campaigned on making health care more affordable, not mandating coverage (i.e. universalizing) it to all. He said coverage should be mandatory for children up to age 26. Whether or not we go to a single payer public option, the problem is that HR3200 will require everyone to have health insurance in 5 years with gov. mandated minimum requirements.
Fact: he said families would save 2500/yr. With a 1.8 Trillion dollar cost, this is almost an impossibility--families will be taxed somewhere to pay for this. It is not "deficit neutral."
QUOTE
The problem I have is they are lumping about 5 different things into the same pot and calling it health insurance reform.

1. The purpose of all insurance is to take very expensive very unlikely events and spread the cost out to a group that voluntarily pays premiums. Examples are your untimely death, wrecking your car, or getting cancer. Insurance companies profit by being able to calculate those risks and expenses and charge the highest premium they can. I think people confuse health care with health insurance. What we have right now is a bastardization of the two. Why use insurance when you go for a routine visit? That's like paying for car insurance that covers all minor repairs and maintenance.

2. I do favor one time of socialist health care. Emergency care. A free market doesn't work well in an emergency. If you are going to die without medical care in 5 minutes you don't have time to shop around and compare. Just like Police, Fire, EMT's are all paid for by local taxes so should Emergency Room Care. The reform I'd like to see here would allow hospitals to deny treatment for non-emergencies. Just like if you call 911 because you have a cold or the Police if you can't get it your way at the drive thru you should be fined if you show up to an Emergency Room with a non-emergency.

3. The free market can work to lower medical costs for things that you have time to shop and compare . Look at industries that don't take insurance like laser eye surgery and plastic surgery. Those costs keep going down because of the profit motive. People don't want glasses but have to pay out of pocket for the surgery. So companies design machines cheaper and cheaper to provide this service.

4. Eliminate Patents and Prescriptions on Drugs. There is no reason you should need a doctors note for a drug. Why should you have to spend $100 on a doctors visit when you know what you have? If you have had 1 ear infection you know what it feels like. You know you need the anti-biotic ear drops. The drops only cost about $20 (at least they do for my dog). Why make someone wait? Some may argue that the patent is needed for the drug makers to recoup their costs. But if you are first to market it will take 2 years for someone to reverse engineer not only the drug but the process to make it and get to market. You can recoup your profits in those 2 years. Plus if you eliminate the FDA and prescriptions you will get it to market sooner and cheaper.

5. Legal reform for drugs and doctors. The problem I have with suing drug makers is that they only sell a product. If they are selling what they claim (ie the chemicals in the bottle are what they say on the side) then they shouldn't be liable for how you use it. Just like herbs and other natural products today. You can claim this mushroom or that root helps some disease but it is up to the person and their doctor to decide if it is right or not. As long as what they are selling you is what they claim it to be.

As for doctors. Just like you can't sue police for not showing up and stopping a robbery or sue the fire department for not saving your house in a fire you shouldn't be able to sue a doctor for not saving your limb or life. If you are in an emergency where you are going to die and a doctor tries to save you but can't he shouldn't be liable. Now this again is different then in a situation where they have time to study the condition. In those cases the patient should be allowed to buy outcome based insurance for themselves. Like the insurance you can buy at an airport in case your plane crashes you should be allowed to buy your own insurance before surgery. Plus you can use those premiums as a guide to the quality of your doctor.


QUOTE
The president has correctly diagnosed the need for major health care reform in our country. The problem is that the prescription being offered by Congress is worse than the disease.
Advertisement

Heath care costs have been rising much faster than inflation for several years. These costs consume an ever-increasing portion of all family and business budgets, including the city government's budget. Indeed, city and state governments face an increasingly difficult time balancing the budget because of the rapid escalating cost of health care coverage.

The solution, however, isn't spending a trillion dollars and creating a new federal bureaucracy. Those who are currently satisfied with their doctor and health care may find that they have fewer options than they currently do. Rationing treatment has become the key feature in most government health care systems outside of the U.S. Ultimately, with a massive new government health insurance system, all Americans will end up with a medical system that delivers all of the compassion of the IRS and the efficiency of the building department. This is the wrong way to fix health care for our families.

Instead, major reforms that will increase competition and reduce the cost of health care, without bankrupting the taxpayers, should be instituted, including:

• Malpractice tort reform. It is estimated that nearly one-third of all medical procedures today are for "defensive medicine," to protect doctors from malpractice lawsuits. Similarly, malpractice insurance is increasingly the largest single cost most medical doctors today have to pay to continue to practice. A cap on non-economic "pain and suffering" damages at the greater of $250,000 or triple economic damages will go a long way toward reducing rising health care costs. States that have instituted malpractice tort reform have seen their health care costs rise at a slower rate than the national average. It's time for Congress to enact national medical malpractice reform.

• Interstate health insurance. Currently, 90 percent of Hawai'i residents get their health insurance from just two insurers: HMSA and Kaiser. If a Hawai'i resident wants to shop for health insurance from other major insurers like Cigna, Aetna, or United Health, you can't by law. That's nonsensical. We should allow any validly licensed health insurance company to offer health insurance in all states to increase competition and offer more choices to the public. More competition will yield greater coverage and lower medical costs.

• Individual tax deduction of health insurance. We need to fundamentally change the way we tax health insurance. Today, health insurance is largely obtained through your employer using a corporate tax deduction. There is always a market disconnect, however, when the purchaser of a product is different from the consumer, as in the health insurance market. Health insurance should instead be an individual choice with an individual tax deduction rather than a corporate tax deduction. The health insurance market should be made more similar to the home or auto insurance market where individual families, not employers, decide which insurance company to use. By allowing an individual deduction for health insurance we can make health insurance a more "normal" market and better contain out-of-control costs.

A greater portion of the U.S. economy goes to pay for health care than any other Westernized nation and too many Americans are not covered by our health care system. We need meaningful fixes that bring down the ever-escalating cost of health care without destroying the positive aspects of medicine in America. Establishing a government run "public option" and spending more money to reduce health care spending does not make sense. Creative ideas to encourage more competition and broaden the reach of health care, however, are just what the doctor ordered.


If you scanned or read those all of this, then I would love to hear your opinion.
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Posts in this topic
XGhozt   Obama's Health Care Plan for the US   Sep 9 2009, 07:44 PM
Zar   I am not going to support or will ever support soc...   Sep 10 2009, 01:29 PM
Ruler of War   I don't support government run health care PER...   Sep 10 2009, 04:33 PM
///M   Politics on this website? LOL! umm, first o...   Sep 10 2009, 08:41 PM
Poply   If you don't believe this entitles people to ...   Sep 10 2009, 10:00 PM
Zar   [quote name='Poply' post='172400' date='Sep 11 200...   Sep 11 2009, 09:40 AM
Poply   [quote name='Poply' post='172400' date='Sep 11 200...   Sep 11 2009, 04:48 PM
///M   Poply that was just about the dumbest thing ive h...   Sep 10 2009, 11:53 PM
Poply   They want to kill us? Iraq couldn't have even ...   Sep 11 2009, 12:16 AM
ViperSRT3g   I support this bill because it can be run through ...   Sep 11 2009, 12:54 AM
Poply   I'm not positive, but it seems like you think ...   Sep 11 2009, 01:04 AM
Major Zhuinden   Wait. So what this health care reform plan says is...   Sep 11 2009, 05:20 AM
Poply   Wait. So what this health care reform plan says is...   Sep 11 2009, 05:55 AM
Major Zhuinden   Ah, then it's pretty much as I gathered, and I...   Sep 11 2009, 06:15 AM
Ruler of War   I don't see why I have to pay for every one el...   Sep 11 2009, 02:45 PM
XGhozt   Can someone explain to me how this is going to get...   Sep 11 2009, 03:12 PM
ZmanHunter   Healthcare reform is the answer but the solution i...   Sep 11 2009, 06:10 PM
Poply   Healthcare reform is the answer but the solution i...   Sep 11 2009, 06:22 PM
///M   history has been down this road too many times. ...   Sep 12 2009, 02:54 AM
Poply   history has been down this road too many times. ...   Sep 12 2009, 04:59 AM
Zar   Poply if you don't even know what communism is...   Sep 12 2009, 06:52 AM
Poply   Oh wow, look. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...   Sep 12 2009, 05:27 PM
Zar   Well wither we like it or not, Obama implied that ...   Sep 12 2009, 09:51 PM
Poply   What do you mean "he will pass the bill...   Sep 12 2009, 10:33 PM
Zar   I am talking about the speech that he gave to cong...   Sep 13 2009, 09:33 AM
Major Zhuinden   Someone explain to me why it is so bad for you tha...   Sep 21 2009, 12:54 AM
kmphantom   Do you mean the hittler health care plan ? thats ...   Sep 30 2009, 05:44 AM
Union1   Anyway Barrack Obama can pass it without Congress...   Oct 2 2009, 08:06 AM


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