Iraq war and current bill

[Virtus 23]

Has been awhile since this has been talked about and I think a new post will be best

 

deaths and casualties, roughly: http://icasualties.org/oif/

 

A bill is in the process of going through the system, this bill, the pull-out war bill was written by the democrats to force the U.S. out of the war. The date in the bill, for the U.S. to pull out is April of 2008, exactly 1 year from now.

 

On the 25th of this month the bill was passed by the House or Representatives and is now waiting to be voted on by the Senate where it should pass but only just. President Bush stated that should this bill reach his desk he will veto it without second thought. Upon its veto it will go back to the House and hte Senate where, if they both pass the bill with a 60% vote it will over ride the President's veto.

 

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N25453822.htm

 

Do you think this bill should be passed? Why or why not?

Edited April 26, 2007 by Virtus

[///M 75]

No,

The this bill should be destroyed, we need to finish what we started end of that.

 

Im also sick of all of these damn liberals crying that we lost a lot of men, we lost more men in the first hour of Omaha then this Iraq War.

[i-8-my-goldfish 113]

THis is a touchy subject. I personally feel that this bill needs to pass for the fact that at first they were saying the war would be quick and we would be in and out in no time. Now almost 7 years later it's still going on and overall the progress has not been all that meaningful. It's unfortunate that even though the bill is going tp pass In both the house and the senate but When it goes to the president he will veto and that will be it's since it needs a 2/3rds majority to over ride the veto and the bill is just going to pass by a very small margin. So We'll be there at least until he is out of term. And with the threats starting up with Iran this will not end as long as bush is in power.

 

On the other side of this, if the bill were to pass some how and the soldiers do get withdrawn, is there really a feeling of accomplishment for them. I mean I don't know how many still want to be over there. I would assume not too many so this point is kind of mute. However they all did volunteer to go so maybe they do.

 

For those that do want to keep trying to win the war Pulling them out could be looked at as a sign that we don't support them. I find this personally hard to grasp because we want them home, with us. How is that not supporting them.

 

The causulties alone are enough to think twice about keeping our loved ones there. War that is justified is still a terrible thing for both sides. War that is not justified like the current war IMO is even worse. Some one will probabbly say "well when is war justified/" and honestly i don't have a good answer for that. But when the majority of congress and people that were strongly for the war in the beginning and are now against it just as strongly that says something.

 

No,

The this bill should be destroyed, we need to finish what we started end of that.

 

Im also sick of all of these damn liberals crying that we lost a lot of men, we lost more men in the first hour of Omaha then this Iraq War.

 

 

Do not turn this into a liberal or conservative bashing thread. You have a right to your opinion but post valid well thought out reasons.

 

Yes but WW2 was a justified war. There were things that were done to provoke the war and other terrible things going on in the world that needed to be put to a end. Holocaust just to name one although that was not the main reason we were fighting but the war had a huge part in ending that.

[Virtus 23]

Rumsfield fired the 2 military generals who said this war would not turn out good, they were right, now where is Rumsfield?

 

We are loosing this war. A war that we created and for what reason? We were not asked to go into Iraq, we had to right to be there. Now the area has become unstable and volatile.

 

The war should be passed for the sake of our ppl, but, what will the world think of that?

 

I was talking about this with my parents last night and they had a good idea. Why not ask the Iraqis if they want us to back out if they think our presence is causing the current fighting. If they say yes, we pull back and see what happens. If it stops we can say ok, it is our fault we will leave. If it doesn't stop then, well, we caused the issue and we ask if they want our continued support.

 

We are a country of high tech equipment but we cannot stop a guy thats intends to blow himself up.

 

This war was botched from the start no denying that.

 

back to this bill.

 

if it passes we will know that our friends and family will be home for good, but, how many more will die? If it doesn't pass then, we pray that they can hold their own.

[i-8-my-goldfish 113]

Well regardless of whether or not they want us there. There is still going to be fighting over there. Cause there just isn't established control like here or other " civilized countries' I say civilized loosely because The US is more civilized then other parts of the world but we're not perfect either.

 

There might be less fighting over there if we pull out but there would still be fighting.

 

So I think that point is kinda of canceled out. I could understand if they wanted us to mind out own business and solve it on their own. But they might end up killing each other off completely. I don't think they could do it in a civil maner because of the nature of the way it is over there.

 

I do agree that the US sticks it's nose in places it has no buisness being in way too much.

[thepwnager 0]

I think it shouldnt be passed because if were not over there the ppl who did 9/11 will probably just do some other things like it. + our being there has helped in some areas and even the military says that a surge would help because they cant keep control of the areas liberated because they have to move on to another. And many of them do want us there.

[Virtus 23]

Bush screwed up big time, if he tries to pull out he will look bad, but things will only get worse if we stay there. How do we pull out gracefully, if that is at all possible

 

We cannot wipe out the insurgents, forever 1 we kill 5 more are made. It may of helped in some areas but why did we even go there in hte first place? we had no right.

 

We originally went to Iraq to look for WMDs we found none so we should of pulled out.

 

A surge at this pont would not do too much. We would of had to go in 300k strong to take control

 

going back to your 9/11 remark, even if we did get control of the area what would stop them attacking, oh...idk...off the top of my head....sears tower, goldengate bridge, pentagon again, white house, etc

Edited April 26, 2007 by Virtus

[i-8-my-goldfish 113]

As promised our president veto'd the bill.

 

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...0471/-1/ZONES04

[wediot 0]

It is time to stop the war!!!

[XGhozt 410]

Bush, the Next War Whore.

[pathog3n 0]

Bush, the Next War Whore.

 

 

This bill will never get passed and it is a good thing too. We made a mistake, but now we have an obligation to see it through and stick with it. As far as causalties go, sure 3000+ dead is a sad thing but thousands more die in car accidents every year.

[i-8-my-goldfish 113]

Accident being the key word in Car accident. This war wasn't an accident and the war and car accidents are 2 completely different things. You can't compare the 2.

[Virtus 23]

I kinda agree with you pathog3n. However, might the fighting end if we leave?

[pathog3n 0]

I kinda agree with you pathog3n. However, might the fighting end if we leave?

 

 

Of course not. It would get worse until a group got control. From there, it depends on how genocidal the government is.

[Virtus 23]

i say, all hope is lost, the only way, in my opinion, we could stop this is drop a bomb or 2 on major cities

 

not saying it is right, or we should do it, just saying that i think it would be hte only way to completely solve the issue.

[pathog3n 0]

I think that would probably make it worse.

[Virtus 23]

oh i know that, but, for a sure fire way to win, it is the only option

[Div 0]

Setting a timetable for the withdrawal from Iraq is the absolute worst thing that could be done in this situation, im pretty sure that the democrats only did it because it makes all republicans look like warmongers, but in all honestly, were we too pull out now, another regime would tke over and we'd just have a hussein by another name.

 

The reason they teach history in school is because it does repeat itself, this is basically the Vietnam War in a different country, and what did we do in Vietnam? We pulled out, we lost tons of soldiers, the morale of the nation itself lowered to near nothing, and for what? So the communists could regain control as soon as we left? To this day Vietnam still is communist. Because thats basically what we did, we sent a bunch of people to get killed for absolutely no reason, their deaths were completely in vain. We achieved absolutely nothing, however, with the Iraq war we have a chance to make up for the mistakes we made in vietnam. In retrospect, was the initiation of the war a bad idea? Yea, and no one will disagree with that, but we cant change whats already happened, we've got to adapt to the situation, and by staying in Iraq, and finishing what we went in their to do we will have not only helped ourselves, but the world as a whole.

 

And to the opposition to the war, i say Fuck you all.What is your reasoning? Bush just wants oil, and soldiers are dying. Thats all youve got, both which can be COMPLETELY disproven, i don't know if you guys watch the john stewart show, but John McCain was on recently and they talked about the war on iraq, and McCain said that he gets tons of letters from soldiers saying they are glad to be in IRaq making the world a better place, they arent just pawns by bush, they are their fighting because they choose too, theres no draft currently instated, no one is forced to go, so yea people are dying over there, but its their choice, and i must say a good one.

 

On the whole Bush is a greedy bastard thing, thats just made up because without it youd only be able to say cuz ppl are dying!!! within 2 decades we wont even need oil, most new cars dont even use regular oil, instead many cars now run on green diesel, which is being implemented into more and more gas stations and will eventually replace gasoline completely. And bush knows it, hell we've known it the past few years, pretty much everyone has seen the bp commericals (they have like the green flower thing as their logo) so really theres no point to obtaining large amounts of oil as within the next couple of decades it will become obsolete, If you guys have seen that special edition of Pimp My ride with Arnold Schwarzenegger you know what im talking about, the car ran on green diesel and has 800hp, beat a Lamborghini in a drag race too.